RE: FW: RE: FpML-AWG AWG Teleconference 29-May-08

[matthew.d.rawlings@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

I agree we should tighten the guidelines
following a debate in the AWG.

Matthew Rawlings 
+44 7917 596 827

"Brian Lynn" <brian.lynn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: awg@xxxxxxxx

29/05/2008 18:37

Please respond to
awg@xxxxxxxx

To	<awg@xxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	RE: FW: RE: FpML-AWG AWG Teleconference 29-May-08

Matthew –
 
On your point #1, it’s possible
that we should tighten the guidelines.  However, we’ve not previously
assumed that we need to support schema-aware XPath expressions;  if
so, we would certainly need more rules on the ways we can evolve types.
 This is something that the group needs to decide, but I don’t think
it relates to the proposed change in the namespace, as it is the elements
in the instance documents that are validated against a schema, not the
types that may have been assumed when creating them.  
 
The example you given in
 #1 below was a change to an element name, not a type name, I believe.
 I think it happened prior to the introduction of the guidelines.
 Even if not, we did intentionally break the guidelines (following
the exception process) to allow equities to reorganize their model for
FpML 4.1.  This type of exception would presumably no longer be possible
if we adopt the proposed namespace change, so we probably need to remove
this option from the guidelines.
 
My point wasn’t that the
guidelines are necessarily sufficient, just that the specific example problem
cited is one that we’ve already anticipated.  Doubtless we’ll find
some that aren’t.  
 
On your point #2, this arguably
is covered by the high level prohibition on invalidating existing instance
documents, but perhaps we should add an additional detailed guideline as
you suggest.  In practice I don’t think we’ve ever done what you
suggested is possible (changed the meaning of an element without changing
its name), but I guess there’s always a first time.  
 
On your point #3, I don’t
understand your point at all in the context of backward compatibility.
 Adding a new element that changes the interpretation of an existing
element only matters if the element is present in the instance document.
 In other words, if an instance document doesn’t contain the new
element, the interpretation remains as before.   What is the problem
with allowing these elements to appear in new minor versions of the schema?
 (Why is this not backward compatible?)  If you want the new
interpretation, you use the new structure, and if you don’t, you don’t.
 As long as the old interpretation is still available in the schema,
we should be fine.
 
 
- Brian
 
 
From: awg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:awg@xxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of matthew.d.rawlings@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:10 PM
To: AWG
Subject: Re: FW: RE: FpML-AWG AWG Teleconference 29-May-08
 

Brian - 

The current FpML Change Control Guidelines are currently too loose for
this purpose. Changes can be made that are not backwards compatible, such
as: 
1.        Making
a change to the schema that breaks schema-aware XPath. A good example is
that renaming a complex type would break a FpML Validation Rule that used
that type as a context. For example when equityBermudaExercise changed
from equityBermudanExercise this was not backwards compatible for eqd-6,
eqd-7, eqd-8, eqd-9, and eqd-10.

2.        Changing
the meaning of an element without changing the schema. For example if "sender"
becomes an application instead of an organization. 
3.        Adding
an element that changes the definition of an existing element. For example
adding tradeSide changed the interpretation of /FpML/trade/capFloor/capFloorStream/payerPartyReference
so that it may point to a tradeSide rather than a party.

There are others I won't list, but these 3 represent examples of a backwards
incompatible change that was within the FpML Change Control Guidelines.
For fpmlVersion to work a much stricter definition of backwards compatible
is needed. 

Matthew Rawlings 
+44 7917 596 827 

-original message-
Subject: RE: FpML-AWG AWG Teleconference 29-May-08
From: "Brian Lynn" <brian.lynn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2008-05-29 15:40

This specific change is already prohibited within a single major version
by
the FpML Change Control Guidelines for backward compatibility reasons.
Similarly, we can't change the names of existing elements, remove required
elements,  make optional elements mandatory, etc.  These guidelines
do cause
some headaches but we've been working within them (more or less) for a
couple of years.   A consequence is that when we add new elements
we usually
need to make them optional, or create a choice between the old and new
ways.
On each major version we can review and decide to make the new stuff
mandatory.



http://www.fpml.org/documents/standard/changeGuidelines.pdf



- Brian



From: awg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:awg@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
mark.a.addison@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:19 AM
To: awg@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: FpML-AWG AWG Teleconference 29-May-08




I still have some concerns with respect to the proposed idea of dropping
minor version from the schema namespace. 
As an example, it will not be possible to add a required element to any
new
minor version of the schema (a major version will be required.) 
i.e. for backward compatibility reasons - because documents produced using
a
previous minor version could not possibly contain the field and would not
validate against the schema. 
Is this going to be too limiting? 

Regards, 

Mark. 

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