In talking with Scott (he will follow up with a more detailed response) it looks like to me that the approach you folks have come up with for encapsulation of FpML product description using the encodedSecurityDesc and Len fields is superior to the approach we designed in FIX 4.4 and that we should definitely support your proposed method going forward as the standard way to support FpML or other XML product definitions, including revising the standard accordingly. Now that I am up to speed with the proposal and the work you have done - this looks great and looks like a very practical, sensible integration point for FIX and FpML. This effort should result in further adoption of both FpML and FIX. And after our experiences with alternative transports for back office, I think the FIX session layer, though long in the tooth, crude, and simplistic as it is, is still the most conservative and viable approach for reliable messaging for the securities industry. The integration of FIX and FpML as is done in your proposal really takes the best of both and provides something very implementable and supportable. -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Taikitsadaporn [mailto:tai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:37 AM To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example Jim, the push back regarding use of XMLData in the tag=value format of FIX is because that field is in the header. A lot of times header information does not get passed back propery by the FIX engine to the upstream application. I view the FpML as business content that should be part of the message body that does not belong the FIX message header. I think using FIXML with FpML over a FIX session layer is a different story, we're strictly looking at this from the classic FIX perspective. TW has a time-to-market issue here so, I think we found a solution that their clients (and the OMS vendors they use) can easily work with. Northey, Jim wrote: > I think this is open to discussion as we specified in the 4.4 > specification that the XMLData can be used for any type of XML encoding > and we specified ./ purposely for FpML payload. > > > > If you ever used FIXML with FpML over a FIX session layer - which I > support - I think we would use a combined XML document - per the work > Robert et al did previously. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Dean Kauffman [mailto:Dean.Kauffman@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:43 AM > To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example > > > > That was my original proposal - but Scott defended FIXML's ground. If > classic FIX used XMLData for FpML, FIXML would have to find another > location for it. I think "./" would be super in the SecurityID field > when SecurityIDSource=I (FpML) and the FpML document is imbedded in > EncodedSecurityDesc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Northey, Jim [mailto:jnorthey@xxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:32 AM > To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example > > Just wanted to make sure folks looked at FIX 4.4 - the embedded > XMLData approach - I think the URL for this was something like "./" > - to indicate that the document is contained within the document. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Dean Kauffman [mailto:Dean.Kauffman@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:41 AM > To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example > > > > Robert et al, > > We've been working with XML content for some time and the generally > accepted style is to omit formatting on transmission - some > file-systems are confounded by NLs embedded in variable length > records. The readily-available tools for displaying XML, e.g. MS > Internet Explorer, XERCES tools, will add back in the structural > formatting. > > Dean > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Green [mailto:rgreen@xxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:44 AM > To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example > > > I think this accurately reflects the working group's > conversation, Scott. > > I had a question about one of the marginal notes: > > FpML content will not contain TABs or NLs > > I am interested in why this restriction would exist. It seems > likely that systems that create FpML might normally put in tabs > and/or NL's (as was included in the example you provided.) Is > this a FIX restriction? > > Best regards, > > Bob > > ______________________________________ > Bob Green > Vice President - Systems > Phone: 813 470-2800 FAX: 212 908-2255 > E-mail: rgreen@xxxxxxxx <MAILTO:rgreen@xxxxxxxx> > Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation > 18301 Bermuda Green Dr, Tampa FL 33647 > > > > > > scott_atwell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > 03/16/2005 09:36 AM > Please respond to fpml-fix > > > > > To: fpml-fix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > cc: "Gregory J. Vierheilig" > <gregory.vierheilig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Robert > Stowsky (E-mail)" <rstowsky@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Lisa Taikitsadaporn > (E-mail)" <tai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, dean.kauffman@xxxxxxxxxxxx, (bcc: > Robert Green/DTCC) > Subject: FpML-FIX Working Group - Revised Example > > > > > > > > > > The example Dean Kauffman from TradeWeb presented at yesterday's > meeting > has been revised and a Word version posted on the FPL-FpML > Collaboration > Working Group page. You can access it via: > http://www.fixprotocol.org/documents/1349/FIXFpML%20Proposal.doc > ----- > TradeWeb Proposal to include FpML within FIX mesages for > Interest Rate > Swaps > > Proposal to include FpML (XML document) within FIX messages (via > EncodedSecurityDesc(351) in the FIX <Instrument> block). > Attributes that do > not have FIX equivalents appear only in the FpML Content - > calendars, day > conventions, payment & calculation adjustments, termination > provisions (not > shown), etc. The example provided by Thomson-TradeWeb is a > sample FIX > Execution Report for Interest Rate Swaps. > > > > > > > "Dean > > Kauffman" > > <Dean.Kauffman > To > @TradeWeb.com> "Gregory J. Vierheilig" > > > <gregory.vierheilig@implementationsol > 03/14/2005 utions.com>, > > 04:03 PM > <FpML-FIX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > cc > "Lisa Taikitsadaporn > (E-mail)" > Please respond <tai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Robert > Stowsky > to (E-mail)" > <rstowsky@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > fpml-fix@fpml. > Subject > team.collab.ne FpML-FIX RE: REMINDER: > FpML-FIX > t Working Group Meeting - > March 15, > 2005 @ 9AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attached is a sample FIX ExecutionReport for an Interest Rate > Swap for > discussion. The actual FIX tags would be numeric only - > expansion is > included here for help reading the content. The FpML document > describing > the trade is embedded in the XMLData group in the header, the > SecurityIDSource(22) is "I" ISDA and the SecurityID(48) gives > the ISDA name > of the floating rate index "EUR-EURIBOR-Telerate". Attributes > that do not > have FIX equivalents appear only in the FpML Content - > calendars, day > conventions, payment & calculation adjustments, termination > provisions > (which I don't show here), etc. > > Look forward to your feedback. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregory J. Vierheilig > [mailto:gregory.vierheilig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:46 PM > To: FpML-FIX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Cc: Dean Kauffman > Subject: REMINDER: FpML-FIX Working Group Meeting - March 15, > 2005 @ 9AM > > > Hello, > > This email is to remind you that an FpML-FIX Working Group > meeting with a > presentation by Dean Kauffmann of Trade Web. > The meeting is scheduled to be held on Tuesday, March 14, 2005 > at 9AM. The > call-in number and agenda are as follows. > > > Dial-in information: > > Direct Dial-in: 201-210-3434 > Participant code: 825508 > > Reference code (for problems): 272509 > > Best Regards, > > Greg > > Gregory Vierheilig > Implementation Solutions, LLC > 331 West 57 Street, #364 > New York, New York 10019 > 866-941-8650 Voice > 866-941-5955 Fax > 973-930-0866 Mobile > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: fpml-fix-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > For additional commands, e-mail: fpml-fix-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission (including any > accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized > recipient(s), and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged > information. 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